Melbourne, Monday night, 12:30
Today was a busy day. I spoke this morning at a conference for pastors and leaders and then tonight at the Uncensored Grace Conference. Our hosts are Pastor Silas Issa of the International Baptist Church and Pastor Robert Albano of the City Wide Christian Church. It is a great testimony to the unifying grace of God that an independent, fundamentalist, Baptist church and an Assembly of God church can unite together for a conference like this. Both pastors are grounded in grace and are leading their churches forward in admirable ways. It is a joy to be with these men and their churches.
On Sunday morning I spoke at one church and David Billings at the other. Below is a short segment of Dave speaking at City Wide Christian Church with Pastor Robert Albano.
Thanks for praying!
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Posts
How does that work? As Assembly of God people generally don't accept eternal security, that means at least some of the onus is upon the hapless believer. To say that He is grounded in grace is confusing to me. I am willing to be corrected but am bewildered by such a statement.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure what you mean by, "How does that work?" How does what work? Do you mean how does a person from an AOG background receive the truth? If so, the answer is "in the same way as Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Nazarenes, etc. -- by revelation from God."
ReplyDeleteStevie, with all due respect - I hear a judgmentalism in your remark that suggests that you just can't see how a person from the AOG could know the truth. Whatever misunderstandings that may be widespread in that denomination is no worse than the misunderstandings of various matters in other denominations. None of us have a corner on the truth. Frankly, I'm bewildered by your bewilderment :)
I can tell you that this pastor from an AOG background understands the grace of God better than 99% of the people I meet from any denominational affiliation or background.
My question was--"Isn't the truth of eternal security crucial, even inseparable to being grounded in grace?" Or at least that is what I thought I meant.
ReplyDeleteAm I being judgemental? I probably am.
I apologize to you, to this man, and to anyone else I may have hurt or offended.
I don't know how to say all the right words but I don't want to have you or anyone upset with me.
I hope I don't blotch this too.
I'm sorry, I ask you to forgive me.
Stevie
Stevie
Our fellowship wears an AG sign out front(I have no idea why; we weren't there at the founding), but we teach Christ and Him crucified, His finished work, and Grace, in the Person of Christ.
ReplyDeleteI have no idea what AG doctrine is; we aren't there for the affiliation, but the Person preached. We aren't AG, we're Christians. Well...maybe we're AG heretics and didn't know it! :)
Hi Steve
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing with me on the phone on Tuesday
Also I agree with your comments regarding this AOG pastor
I was raised in the AOG denomination and I decovered the Grace of God over 25 years ago. Now I pastor a Pentecostal Church in QLD Australia. We are a Grace based Church, Amillennial, socially active, exegesis bible studying people who have seen the invite into Christ heart. The exchange life that took place and a great mystery that was hid has been revealed “Christ in you is the Hope of Glory”. Along with other evangelical beleivers we see the amazing Grace of God that transforms lives.
Every Blessing
John
http://www.tamborinecommunitychurch.com/
Hi Steve
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing with me on the phone on Tuesday
Also I agree with your comments regarding this AOG pastor
I was raised in the AOG denomination and I decovered the Grace of God over 25 years ago. Now I pastor a Pentecostal Church in QLD Australia. We are a Grace based Church, Amillennial, socially active, exegesis bible studying people who have seen the invite into Christ heart. The exchange life that took place and a great mystery that was hid has been revealed “Christ in you is the Hope of Glory”. Along with other evangelical beleivers we see the amazing Grace of God that transforms lives.
Every Blessing
John
http://www.tamborinecommunitychurch.com/
Stevie, nobody is upset with you :) I was simply making the point that when you ask how it is possible that an Assembly of God pastor could understand grace, it sounded like your assumption is that they can't. My response was intended to make the point that anybody in any denomination can understand God's grace, since it is the Holy Spirit who reveals it to any of us. None of us have a corner on the truth. Each denomination has its strengths and each has its blind spots. That's the point I was making.
ReplyDeleteNo apology is necessary and I assure you I'm not upset with you :)
Hi Steve,
ReplyDeleteI find this an interesting subject as I was raised the first part of my "understanding" life (from about 8yrs. to 13yrs. old) in the Baptist church, and from 14yrs. on to just a year ago in the A-G church. I can really understand what Stevie is saying, I do not like to think that I am judgemental, I love the thought of everyone coming to the grace walk thinking, but I know how hard the road is too. I learned about the grace walk, exchange life, what ever we want to call it a couple of years ago and tried very much to take it in while going to our church which was Assembly of God. It was impossible, the whole mind set of the church continued to supress my growth and keep me in fear of Gods wrath on me do to my lack of what they preached as the need for "right living" as proof that we are saved. I mean to say, at the very least that preaching made me a very good pretender. Its so hard to stop taking the bible as a hard tasker when you have been demanded on to perform or be lost for so long. I still have trouble after a year in thinking that God is shaking His head and thinking I am a botch job. I want all people to feel the freedom that I and my wife have come to understand, even though it is still a struggle with the old teachings of "a few steps in the wrong direction and we are no longer saved" always nagging at our hearts. I guess I just have a lot of past AG hurt from, gossip, condemnation, and mass pretending still unresolved, but find it hard to accept the AG chuch believing in the "eternal security" way of thinking while holding the mantle of the AG anti-security message and all that goes with it. I say anti-security because it has always been said as long as I can remember in the AG that there is no security if you are not following Gods law, only in total obedience is there security and salvation. As a final note, my wife is Australian, we lived in Melbourne together for almost 2 years, we attended two different AG churches while we were there and I found the same sentiment that I was raised with in both churches. I am glad that you are seeing a change come, and I rejoice in that, I just have a hard time seeing how a mixing of "new wine in old wine skins" can be avoided in the mixed setting of AG doctrine and the grace teaching. Hope this doesn't sound like a rant or is at all argumentative, I do not mean it that way at all, I have the deepest repect for you and this ministry.
Ron
I understand where you're coming from, Ron, and don't see your remarks nor Stevie's as argumentative. I do think we all need to realize that no particular denomination has a greater problem with legalism than others. Each has it's own unique "flavor" of legalism, but the problem is pervasive throughout the church world. I have no background with the AOG so I'm not trying to defend them, but am just making the point that legalism is a systemic problem across the spectrum of church life, regardless of denominational affiliation. I admit that I may be oversensitive to the idea of it being pointed out in one denomination over another because I've seen its damage in so many different types of churches of every doctrinal and denominational persuasion.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteWhat is a blog administator? This is my first time at this. Did I get through?
ReplyDeleteTravis - I don't know what happened. Try again with hour original post.
ReplyDeleteTo Steve Mc Vey
ReplyDeleteSOS Im Having a problem with panic disorder
Would like back up prayer. Im too afraid to live and too afraid to die.
would like someone to talk to.
From a brother in distress. Travis