Thomas Erskine (1788-1870)was a very well known theologian in the early 19th century. His writings are a great read for those who want to dig deeper into the reality of mankind's inclusion in the work of the cross. When Erskine died at home in 1870, his last words were fittingly enough: "Lord Jesus!"
Here's how he explained what I've been discussing in my "Sunday Preaching" series about how salvation is the subjective experience of the objective work of Jesus Christ on the cross.
"If I find a mother weeping over the account of the death of her first-born, which I know to be a false report, am I to be considered as a very adventurous prophet, or extravagant promiser, if, when I lay before her the proof of his being in perfect health, I make the declaration before hand, that if she believes my news, she will be saved from her sorrow, and that her heart will rejoice? Why, this is no more than what every reasonable being must regard as the necessary consequence of such a belief. Yet it is true, that she is saved from her anguish by faith in my story. But her joy is not a premium bestowed on her to reward her belief; it flows naturally out of her belief. Her grief for the supposed death of her child, and her belief that he is alive and well, cannot exist in her mind together. Such a faith necessarily heals such a sorrow. Her faith does not restore her son to life-- he is alive whether she believes it or not-- but his life is no joy to her, unless she believes it. Without faith in my story, she could not be saved from her distress.
Take another example. A son outrages in a most atrocious manner the feelings of his father. The father banishes him from his house, after pronouncing a malediction on him. The son hears of his death soon after, and feels his spirit burdened with the curse; he cannot shake himself free of it-- he is a miserable wretch. A friend of his father comes to him and tells him, that he had seen his father a few hours before his death, and that he had heard him express the warmest affection for him, and the deepest regret for what had taken place between them; and that he had received from him a charge to tell him, that he had withdrawn his curse, and had prayed a blessing on him. The son receives the intelligence with grateful joy, and his burden drops from him. He is saved by faith. His mind is healed by believing the information which has been given him. His father's forgiveness is not given him as a reward of his believing this history-- but unless he believes it, the forgiveness is quite useless to him-- he will continue to feel his father's curse clinging to him. But let me now here suppose for a moment, that the friend, instead of simply relating to him the fact of his father's forgiveness, had put the whole history into the form under which the gospel is very often preached: Suppose he had said to him, your father has forgiven you, if you believe in my testimony of his forgiveness; but if you cannot do this, there is no forgiveness for you. One can easily imagine the perplexity into which the son would be thrown by such an announcement. It would appear to him as if the truth of a past fact depended on the state of his feeling with regard to it. It would be impossible for him, in such circumstances, to believe, because his informant actually told him that his belief of the pardon must precede the existence of the pardon.
The use of faith, then, is not to remove the penalty, or to make the pardon better-- for the penalty is removed, and the pardon is proclaimed, whether we believe it or not-- but to give the pardon a moral influence, by which it may heal the spiritual diseases of the heart-- which influence it cannot have in the nature of things, unless it is believed." (Thomas Erskine, The Unconditional Freeness of the Gospel, pp. 18-22).
Thanks for this post. I think those examples are helping me slowly understand the objective/subjective salvation topic.
ReplyDeleteSteve, thanks so much for this. It clears up a very big issue about unlimited grace, how salvation is denied anyone who hasn't caught the truth, let it inside them, simply because they aren't able to until their hearts are captured.
ReplyDeleteThe truth is there and has been since calvary, and probably since before the foundation of the world. If we 'turn' and take it in, we are saved from the futility of our self-reliant living, praise God!
Steve,
ReplyDeleteI think I understand what you mean; however I still have hesitation to accept the words "subjective" and "objective." I believe in the "objectivity" of Christ's death, burial and ressurection, but if I don't accept the "subjectivity" of my belief in Him (what I think you are saying...) then I'm subject to the "objectivity" of spending eternity separated from Him. Could you please clarify?
Steve
Steve - first, I'll speak to the objective/subjective aspect of salvation. I assume by your comments now and in other posts that you believe in the universal efficacy of the finished work of Jesus Christ - that His work applies to every man. Let me use an example to make my point: Included in his work is, not only heaven, but the gift of joy, peace, wisdom, etc. That is an objective fact. But those who don't trust Him are not experiencing those things now, right? Their subjective experience is that although Jesus' death provided that, they don't presently experience it. It is an objective reality that He gives that but their subjective experience isn't that. His work was unilateral but in order for it to have practical value to them in terms of peace, joy, etc. they need to believe/accept it, right? The same is true of enjoying heaven. If he doesn't force us to enjoy the benefits of His work now - (joy, peace, etc) what would make us think He will force it on us later, after we die?
ReplyDeleteA second point - I don't teach that a person will spend eternity separated from Him. I believe that hell itself is the inescapable presence of the Divine Agape that one loathes. From the early Capadocian Fathers all the way until the Eastern Church today, many have not viewed hell as separation from God's love, but rather living in it's inescapable presence. Is it heaven or is it hell? Is it a sweet smelling savor of life or is it the stench of death? That all depends on one's perspective.
Finally, the only option apart from the objective/subjective position is the Universalist's position that what Christ did gets us into heaven, whether we want to be there or not. That view posits faith as a work, but Paul repeatedly set faith in CONTRAST to works. Never, once, did he indicate that faith is a work. To him it was EITHER grace OR works. He drew the dividing line right down the middle between the two - in Romans, in Galatians and other places.
Some Universalists like to say that faith IS a work. It's not. "For by grace are you saved THROUGH FAITH and that not of yourselves; it is a gift of God NOT OF WORKS, lest anybody should boast." Notice the contrast in that verse. Faith and works always stand in opposite corners. They are never equated (unless we jump into James assertion that faith without works is dead, which is another topic altogether.)
I respect the passion many Universalists have about the inclusive nature of God's love but I don't find biblical evidence to suggest that faith is a work. In fact, there's nothing to support that view whatsoever in Scripture.
Thanks for the input, Steve.
Thanks Steve
ReplyDeleteI think that Ephesians and Colossians 1&2 reveal some wonderful objective reality about all humanity in Jesus, while also giving us glimpses of heaven and hell and where they consist. John
Not all "universalists" (for want of a better word) say faith is a work; the ones I know say it's a gift. What some DO say is that most churches have MADE faith into a work, by saying "you MUST believe, or else you are lost for eternity". They might say God's love is unconditional, but if you reject it you'll burn forever.
ReplyDeleteI'm still trying to figure out if heaven is a place as we've always thought. Been a Christian a long time and it's like I have to go back to the start and relearn it ALL! But it's good though.
Thanks, Steve, for clarifying the "objectivity/subjectivity" issue. Now I'm still fuzzy on your "second point" about "separation from God." It seems to me that you're saying that we ALL will be in the presence of God throughout eternity, but it's just how we, ourselves, view or experience that presence, subjectively, that determines whether it's "Heaven" or "Lake of fire." (Rev 20:7-15)Please clarify.
ReplyDeleteThat's right, Steve. God is omnipresent and there is no place that exists where He is not present. We've been taught that hell is the absence of God but that viewpoint can't be found in the Bible anywhere. Nothing in Scripture says there is a place where God's presence is absent. To the contrary, by Him all things consists (hold together). If any part of creation were to experience His absence, even for a moment, it would fail to exist because there would be nothing or, to be more exact, Nobody, to sustain its existence. No created thing is self-perpetuated but is sustained in order to exist.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, Steve, here are a few interesting thoughts:
ReplyDelete1. Our God is a consuming fire. (See Heb 12:29)
2. When one loves his enemies, it is to that enemy as if coals of fire are being heaped on his head. (See Romans 12:20)
3. Daniel 7:10 "A river of fire was flowing out coming out from before Him."
You are correct, Bro. Penguin :) That's why I said "some universalists." There is actually a wide range of belief about various aspects of salvation, faith, heaven,hell, etc among Universalists. Like other soteriological camps, there isn't unified consensus of beliefs on details.
ReplyDeleteThanks Steve. I'm not sure I can see in the Bible that this life on earth is all there is to salvation. Churches always tell us we must believe on earth before we die, or suffer eternal punishment - but is that actually in the Bible?
ReplyDeleteAnd who is to say that it (salvation) does not continue beyond the grave?
Hi Steve, My best friend is an unbeliever. Are you saying that the truth is that this unbeliever has been forgiven of all her sins 2000 years ago whether she believes it or not and that she now has Christ living in her, she is in Christ, she has new life, Jesus exchanged His life for hers at the cross, she has been made righteous, she is holy, has the mind of Christ, she has all the promises of God and even has the Holy Spirit because of the finished work of Jesus Christ when He died on the cross for the remission of her sins, But because she doesn't believe the Good News she still has all of these but can't experience it? Like you said about Cornelius (and you mentioned righteous Lot) -- That he has new life but he didn't believe it until Peter told him the Good News?
ReplyDeleteI hope you can make sense of my comments and questions. I see things in a simple way. Thanks Steve. Please comment Agnes Grace
Steve,
ReplyDeleteYou wrote: "From the early Capadocian Fathers all the way until the Eastern Church today, many have not viewed hell as separation from God's love, but rather living in it's inescapable presence."
Can you link to some resources for us to follow up?
Regards.