A message about this week's Sunday Preaching sent to me on FaceBook:
When I talk to others about this story of the Father's love, they often bring up where Paul excommunicated a gentleman because of his sin and that is what we must do when we see it. Yes he did it to give an opportunity for the man to turn from it, and we can do nothing less than Paul did. This is what they say. Also, they give the verses from knowing a good tree by its fruit vs bad tree and that is the way they judge if others are saved are not. I see many problems with this, but wanted to know how you would respond. Liz
Liz,
Okay, the Apostle Paul and sins: First, Paul always laid a VERY strong foundation with the churches about their identity before he ever talked about their behavior. Sadly, that is the missing component in the modern church world. We want to tell people how to act without having told them the basis for developing the right actions. We focus on stopping bad behavior, but unless we teach people their identity in Christ, by what power can they see their behavior be changed? When pastors/churches don't understand identity, they give the people more rules/principles/methods, etc - in other words, another flesh plan.
I do believe that confrontation can be an expression of love and believe in confronting when appropriate. Here are a few questions that come to mind though for those who are "trigger happy" about dealing with other people's sins:
1. Why do you want to confront this person's behavior? Is it REALLY because you love them and don't want to see them be hurt by their wrong choices? Or is it because of your own heightened sense of right and wrong and a need to make people "do right?"
2. Are you going to talk to them about their behavior in terms of right and wrong or in a way that you will lovingly help them see that their bad behavior is really just a misguided way that they are trying to get perceived needs met apart from Christ? (That's what all fleshly actions are.) In other words, what's your goal here - to cause them to change how they act or to help them see Jesus as the answer and to come to the place where they trust Him as their life source?
3. When you confront them, what will your demeanor and attitude be? Will you shed tears of compassion so they KNOW that it is love that motivates you? Or will the confrontation have more of a judicial, courtroom feel to it? Note that is is possible to be strong and yet still clearly communicate love in a way that the offender sees the love you have and knows it is real.
4. What sins are you planning to confront? "By their fruit you shall know them," many like to point out. Well, what fruit are you looking for in a person's life? Which rotten fruit deserves to be confronted? Adultery? Oh yeah. Drug abuse? For sure. There are many about which none would argue over their seriousness.
But how about gossip? Will you confront every gossip in the church? (As a pastor, I saw much more damage done in the church by gossips than by adulterers or drug addicts.) What about pride? I see that in churches all the time. Are you going to confront that? What about selfish ambitions? Paul lists that in Galatians 5 in the same sentence with idolatry, witchcraft, fits or rage, drunkenness, orgies, etc. So are you going to deal with those in the church who try to build a following around themselves and become a big shot in the church? Are you going after only the "big sins" that everybody around you will agree with you about, or are you also going to confront the ones that aren't politically correct (in the church world) to address? After all, fair is fair. If you're going to deal with the open car wrecks in the church, you need to deal with the hidden cancers too. Both will kill the church.
5. What gives you the right to confront this person? Have you developed the kind of loving relationship with them that entitles you to become an extension and spokesman for the Holy Spirit? While it falls within the bounds of the church to lovingly confront behavior at times, it isn't a given that we have the right to become "behavior police" in people's lives at every moment. Will not the Holy Spirit lead and chasten them as necessary? Certainly there will be times He uses us, but are we "trigger happy" about confronting people when we really haven't earned that right by loving them beforehand?
6. What sins are in your own life? Do you see your own fleshly inclinations and areas where you too need to be changed? None of us are perfect, are we? Do you easily see the sins in other people's lives and stand ready to confront those while either being blind to your own sins or else excusing them, minimizing them or ignoring them? Why shouldn't somebody confront you about the things in your own life that need to change? Do you need that? Would you be grateful if they did?
Here's the bottom line: Yes, there are times to confront AS THE LORD LEADS, but it needs to always be done as an expression of love and not as some sort of godzi who takes a condescending, judgmental attitude toward somebody whose sin doesn't happen to be the same as ours.
Much of the time, when "church discipline" is done, it is carried out in a penal environment and there isn't even the slightest whiff of grace in the air. That's sad. When confrontation is, to quote David Augsberger "carefrontation," it will work. Otherwise, it will cause the offender to become filled with self condemnation and bog down even deeper into sin while at the same time shunning the people he feels are judging him.
Check out this video somebody just sent me. You may think these occasions are rare, but I tell you with first hand knowledge, they are not.
I hope this helps answer your question,
Steve McVey
A good blog. I recall a number of years ago confessing a particular sin on the phone to a leader at my church, and he literally screamed in my ear, "HOW COULD YOU DO THAT?! YOU'RE HORRIBLE!" A month later he fell into the same sin.
ReplyDeleteIt's best not to be too harsh, as we're all capable of falling greatly when we walk after the flesh.
wow...great stuff and I completely concur, as I have been on the receiving end of church discipline that was exactly as you described..not a hint of grace in the room. It never helped me anymore than to make me feel like I was less than and that I needed to try harder to please man, and thusly please God. Godzi is the perfect term, because just like the Nazi's, they are looking to breed a pure race...and their behavior becomes radical and murderous. Thanks for the clarification !
ReplyDeleteVery good, and very helpful. Thanks.
ReplyDelete"Carefrontation" is a great term. I like the true-to-life nature of the video too. It is that bad in the church because restoration is not by example in the most cases. I'm thinking of Jimmy Swaggart.
ReplyDeleteHowever those who lead do so by example and I'm grateful in our church my Pastor will not rebuke publicly sinful people in the Body unless it is absolutely necessary and has been tried in private first. He is lenient with the mercy side with error in Christians up front and personal so no one is outright rejected however but standards of holiness are upheld publicly in reconciling in love. We like to say, "not in this church" about any hateful, weird, or sinful way. He is a great undershepherd doing what Christ said and did to say and do in the Lord with mercy and compassion, and forgiveness, and with the hurting, showing by example, with the Paracletos nearby.
I have watched the video. Really thought-provoking. I can only speak for myself: As God has opened my eyes more and more for his mercy I have in this process found my ability for mercy steadingly increasing. The world is in great demand for God's grace. I am indeed thankful that God has raised up prophets like you, Steve, who convey His heart with wisdom to people like me who are transformed due to the good news.
ReplyDeleteThanks so much for this post, Steve. I've actually been struggling quite a bit with this issue lately. In the past few years I've had a few relationships that were absolutely destroyed because of MY own judgment, of MY lack of mercy and grace. I've been listening to God about it, because I don't feel okay with the way these relationships have ended. Even though I can still probably argue correctly that I was RIGHT about the issues, deep in my heart, I'm not at peace about it. I've begun to wonder if it even matters that much to be RIGHT. If it's more important to be right than to extend grace, isn't there just something wrong there? What if Jesus had been that way? Wouldn't he have just been another Pharisee?
ReplyDeleteI really hurt over the way I have hurt others. I'm in a place now where I'm trying to figure out how to make it right. Honestly, for most of the relationships, I don't think I can. I can never take back what I've said, and if some of these people choose to forgive me, it will truly be a miracle.
What's been interesting for me in this journey is what God has been revealing to me about WHY I get so judgmental. A counselor of mine (Barry) once told me that I had a "strong sense of justice", which I could tell by his tone was NOT intended as a compliment.
I won't go into the details of my own journey here, but suffice to say that I always felt very judged and horribly lacking in my own life for decades. I think that's the case with most "judges" out there. They are so keenly aware of their own "inadequacies" (judgments told to them by others), they don't feel it's fair that other people get away with theirs. Or that it's NORMAL to tell other people what theirs are. I wonder if the church doesn't propagate this kind of thinking when it focuses on law.
Anyway, thanks again for this post. I hope that in my journey I can find healing of my own hurts and a way to restore the relationships I've destroyed. And I hope that people who read this post know that they are Christ's beloved, sweet children, no matter what some jerk (like me) may have told them.
I posted a thread on the gracewalk forum showing a church attempting to mature the congregation with "sovereign grace, "rules" (so to speak) Its a long list of do's and dont's of clothing and appearance standards in order to be pleasing to God and keep men from lusting.
ReplyDeletewow, that rings true for me as well.
ReplyDeleteI had a "strong sense of justice", which I could tell by his tone was NOT intended as a compliment.
I won't go into the details of my own journey here, but suffice to say that I always felt very judged and horribly lacking in my own life for decades. I think that's the case with most "judges" out there. They are so keenly aware of their own "inadequacies" (judgments told to them by others), they don't feel it's fair that other people get away with theirs. Or that it's NORMAL to tell other people what theirs are. I wonder if the church doesn't propagate this kind of thinking when it focuses on law.