I beg to differ. How does the grace you live under differ from the grace Adam fell from? None. Adam contention was an irreverent(blasphemous)one; that he could achieve the fruits of the spirit by the law and flesh. No one snatched him out of the Father's hand. He forsook the righteous that he had of his own choice. You are right that we live under a new covenant. But it is a blood covenant. What are the terms of such a covenant? They are established by God and irrevocable.If you break such a covenant you are dead. If you break a covenant the gives you spiritial life you are spiritually dead. Look to the creation account for an explantion of Hebrews 6. Read Gal.5:4 These people were adding flesh to the work of the spirit. See an explantion of Matt. 12:31 in Rev.22:18-19. Believers can dispute the work of the spirit with dreadful consequences.
My dear brother, with loving sincerity I say that we do obviously have a strong difference of opinion on this matter. Are you suggesting that there is no difference between how God relates to us now and how He related to Adam's sin or even how He related to men under the Old Covenant?
To answer your question as to the difference, it's this: The New Covenant is unilateral while the Old Covenant was bilateral. In other words, grace means that God does it all and the only thing I do is to believe it. I can answer about the difference between Adam's plight after he sinned and mine in one word -- JESUS.
To suggest that "if you break such a covenant, you are dead" reveals that you think the terms of the New Covenant are the same as those of the Old, which is a serious and dangerous misunderstanding. (Of course, Adam lived before the Old Covenant was even given.) The New Covenant is not one I have made with God, so I have nothing to keep. It is a covenant He has made with me through His Son, Jesus Christ and He will keep His covenant with me no matter what I do or don't do.
Through simple faith, the blessings of the covenant are mine. It isn't about what I do, but is all about what He has done and what He has done is enough. If we are unfaithful (and we all are at times), He is faithful still. That's why it's called "grace." It is His undeserved favor that comes to us through Jesus Christ. I don't do anything to earn it to begin with and I do nothing to keep it. My only needed response is to believe and say "Thank you!" to this incredible expression of His grace which has been lavished on us through Jesus Christ.
I'm afraid this short response on a blog can't do justice in answering your objections or address the proof-text verses you have lifted out of context to prove your point. I will simply say that if it isn't God's grace and grace alone that saves and keeps us, then every single on of us is in big trouble. Thank God, though, "it is finished!" Now, we can spend eternity celebrating that fact and glorifying Him for it forever. May you be blessed as you grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I've been thinking about this 'backsliding' concept for a few years and like you, came to the conclusion that it can only be an Old Testament concept, and as far as i can tell is only mentioned once - in the book of Isaiah! Yet in many churches today it is a word used every week as if it is all over the New Testament!? It is used to keep people under the condemnation of law like you said.
The Blood Covenant of Christ is enough, as you say - It is a covenant created by God and finished by God - His Son...It is Finished in Jesus!
Thanks again Steve!
PS - i'm getting the Gracewalk DVD conference soon and rerelease of 'A Divine Invitation' ...Looking foward to it!
Just a comment to "Dwells" P.S. I highly recommend the GraceWalk Conference DVD. It is a bargain, considering all the gems in it. I've watched each of the 8 messages over and over numerous times now. Just had to give it a plug . . .
My dear brother you have to admit that the end times falling away is new blood covenant event. What you are missing in your understanding is the God made a blood covenant with Abraham to show you how the new one would work. When two parties enter such a covenant they were saying to each other if I break my word you can do to me what we did to that animal. The Galations started in the spirit(bilaterally) but broke the covenant(faith for righteousness exchange) by wanting to be perfected by the flesh. As a result they were alienated, estranged, severed, fallen away from Christ depending on the translation you use. Just like Adam by the way. Your confusion would also be helped by studying the symbolism of wine in the communion cup. Regards Martin
Thank you for your thoughtful response, Martin. However, our difference of opinion isn't due to a lack of study on my part but rather is because we have come to different conclusions after our respective studies on this subject.
What you are missing in your understanding of the Abrahamic covenant is the unilateral nature of the covenant. You are correct in your description of how and why men entered into covenant using sacrificial animals. However, the Abrahamic covenant was a one-way covenant made by God. Abraham was the beneficiary of this covenant, not a party to it. That is why God caused a sleep to deep sleep to fall upon him when it was time to ratify the covenant and did not allow Abraham to pass between the pieces of the sacrificial animals. God knew that for him to do so would certainly result in Abraham's death, since he would most certainly fail to keep his part if he were allowed to jointly ratify the covenant with God. (In time, Abraham proved that would be exactly true, i.e. telling Sarah to lie about her identity, becoming involved with Hagar, etc.)
When Paul wrote that the Galatian Christians had "fallen from grace," he was speaking of the way they had chosen to function in their Christian lives. They had fallen from grace back into the elemental practices of the Law. They had certainly not destroyed God's faithfulness to them by their own unfaithfulness. When we are unfaithful, He is faithful still. That's why it's called "grace." The Galatians were indeed severed, etc. in terms of the source of their behavior, but certainly not in terms of their salvation/identity. After all, Paul did refer to them as "brethren" in chapter one so he obviously recognized that they were still Christians. Confused, duped, bewitched Christians, but brethren nonetheless.
If, as you seem to be suggesting, all who seek to reach maturity (reach perfection) by the flesh are unsaved, them I would be fearful that the overwhelming majority of the modern church have lost their salvation.
I encourage you, my dear brother, to study the grace of God in depth. Grace acts independently of how we behave or don't behave. Certainly, we fail to fully enjoy the benefits in our day-to-day walk when we act independently, but even when we fail our Father loves us, walks beside us, and relentlessly shows His love to us in order to motivate us to simply believe that He has done it all and to bring us to rest in that fact.
To Mark D Vilen. Thanks for your comment. Yes i can't wait to watch the Grace walk dvd conference. I've had the book for 10 yrs approximately after discovering Steve's teachings through 'Grace Rules' and thought it would be a good idea to have a dvd version of the book's teachings as there are others i know who need to hear this stuff and would really benefit from being introduced to it through a dvd format. A friend and i who watch all these blog videos are really looking foward to watching the dvd... Thanks again
Then there's the verse where Paul implores "My dear children who I am again in childbirth pains until Christ is formed in you"... Because of the mixed messeges or gospels we receive out there, we can stray from the good news that Christ is truly all we need. Christ says The work of God is to put our faith in Him. My overall impression of the book of Galatians is that Paul wants to strike this messege home to the heart of his Brethren/his Children so that if they have not received Christ in this simplicity that they would or if they have strayed from this simplicity they would return to the true gospel. That is the spirit of the letter.
I beg to differ. How does the grace you live under differ from the grace Adam fell from? None. Adam contention was an irreverent(blasphemous)one; that he could achieve the fruits of the spirit by the law and flesh. No one snatched him out of the Father's hand. He forsook the righteous that he had of his own choice. You are right that we live under a new covenant. But it is a blood covenant. What are the terms of such a covenant? They are established by God and irrevocable.If you break such a covenant you are dead. If you break a covenant the gives you spiritial life you are spiritually dead. Look to the creation account for an explantion of Hebrews 6. Read Gal.5:4 These people were adding flesh to the work of the spirit. See an explantion of Matt. 12:31 in Rev.22:18-19. Believers can dispute the work of the spirit with dreadful consequences.
ReplyDeleteMy dear brother, with loving sincerity I say that we do obviously have a strong difference of opinion on this matter. Are you suggesting that there is no difference between how God relates to us now and how He related to Adam's sin or even how He related to men under the Old Covenant?
ReplyDeleteTo answer your question as to the difference, it's this: The New Covenant is unilateral while the Old Covenant was bilateral. In other words, grace means that God does it all and the only thing I do is to believe it. I can answer about the difference between Adam's plight after he sinned and mine in one word -- JESUS.
To suggest that "if you break such a covenant, you are dead" reveals that you think the terms of the New Covenant are the same as those of the Old, which is a serious and dangerous misunderstanding. (Of course, Adam lived before the Old Covenant was even given.) The New Covenant is not one I have made with God, so I have nothing to keep. It is a covenant He has made with me through His Son, Jesus Christ and He will keep His covenant with me no matter what I do or don't do.
Through simple faith, the blessings of the covenant are mine. It isn't about what I do, but is all about what He has done and what He has done is enough. If we are unfaithful (and we all are at times), He is faithful still. That's why it's called "grace." It is His undeserved favor that comes to us through Jesus Christ. I don't do anything to earn it to begin with and I do nothing to keep it. My only needed response is to believe and say "Thank you!" to this incredible expression of His grace which has been lavished on us through Jesus Christ.
I'm afraid this short response on a blog can't do justice in answering your objections or address the proof-text verses you have lifted out of context to prove your point. I will simply say that if it isn't God's grace and grace alone that saves and keeps us, then every single on of us is in big trouble. Thank God, though, "it is finished!" Now, we can spend eternity celebrating that fact and glorifying Him for it forever. May you be blessed as you grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Great video and post Steve!
ReplyDeleteI've been thinking about this 'backsliding' concept for a few years and like you, came to the conclusion that it can only be an Old Testament concept, and as far as i can tell is only mentioned once - in the book of Isaiah! Yet in many churches today it is a word used every week as if it is all over the New Testament!? It is used to keep people under the condemnation of law like you said.
The Blood Covenant of Christ is enough, as you say - It is a covenant created by God and finished by God - His Son...It is Finished in Jesus!
Thanks again Steve!
PS - i'm getting the Gracewalk DVD conference soon and rerelease of 'A Divine Invitation' ...Looking foward to it!
Just a comment to "Dwells" P.S.
ReplyDeleteI highly recommend the GraceWalk Conference DVD. It is a bargain, considering all the gems in it. I've watched each of the 8 messages over and over numerous times now.
Just had to give it a plug . . .
Mark
My dear brother you have to admit that the end times falling away is new blood covenant event. What you are missing in your understanding is the God made a blood covenant with Abraham to show you how the new one would work. When two parties enter such a covenant they were saying to each other if I break my word you can do to me what we did to that animal. The Galations started in the spirit(bilaterally) but broke the covenant(faith for righteousness exchange) by wanting to be perfected by the flesh. As a result they were alienated, estranged, severed, fallen away from Christ depending on the translation you use. Just like Adam by the way. Your confusion would also be helped by studying the symbolism of wine in the communion cup. Regards Martin
ReplyDeleteThank you for your thoughtful response, Martin. However, our difference of opinion isn't due to a lack of study on my part but rather is because we have come to different conclusions after our respective studies on this subject.
ReplyDeleteWhat you are missing in your understanding of the Abrahamic covenant is the unilateral nature of the covenant. You are correct in your description of how and why men entered into covenant using sacrificial animals. However, the Abrahamic covenant was a one-way covenant made by God. Abraham was the beneficiary of this covenant, not a party to it. That is why God caused a sleep to deep sleep to fall upon him when it was time to ratify the covenant and did not allow Abraham to pass between the pieces of the sacrificial animals. God knew that for him to do so would certainly result in Abraham's death, since he would most certainly fail to keep his part if he were allowed to jointly ratify the covenant with God. (In time, Abraham proved that would be exactly true, i.e. telling Sarah to lie about her identity, becoming involved with Hagar, etc.)
When Paul wrote that the Galatian Christians had "fallen from grace," he was speaking of the way they had chosen to function in their Christian lives. They had fallen from grace back into the elemental practices of the Law. They had certainly not destroyed God's faithfulness to them by their own unfaithfulness. When we are unfaithful, He is faithful still. That's why it's called "grace." The Galatians were indeed severed, etc. in terms of the source of their behavior, but certainly not in terms of their salvation/identity. After all, Paul did refer to them as "brethren" in chapter one so he obviously recognized that they were still Christians. Confused, duped, bewitched Christians, but brethren nonetheless.
If, as you seem to be suggesting, all who seek to reach maturity (reach perfection) by the flesh are unsaved, them I would be fearful that the overwhelming majority of the modern church have lost their salvation.
I encourage you, my dear brother, to study the grace of God in depth. Grace acts independently of how we behave or don't behave. Certainly, we fail to fully enjoy the benefits in our day-to-day walk when we act independently, but even when we fail our Father loves us, walks beside us, and relentlessly shows His love to us in order to motivate us to simply believe that He has done it all and to bring us to rest in that fact.
To Mark D Vilen.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comment. Yes i can't wait to watch the Grace walk dvd conference. I've had the book for 10 yrs approximately after discovering Steve's teachings through 'Grace Rules' and thought it would be a good idea to have a dvd version of the book's teachings as there are others i know who need to hear this stuff and would really benefit from being introduced to it through a dvd format. A friend and i who watch all these blog videos are really looking foward to watching the dvd...
Thanks again
Then there's the verse where Paul implores "My dear children who I am again in childbirth pains until Christ is formed in you"...
ReplyDeleteBecause of the mixed messeges or gospels we receive out there, we can stray from the good news that Christ is truly all we need. Christ says The work of God is to put our faith in Him.
My overall impression of the book of Galatians is that Paul wants to strike this messege home to the heart of his Brethren/his Children so that if they have not received Christ in this simplicity that they would or if they have strayed from this simplicity they would return to the true gospel. That is the spirit of the letter.